Be Excellent To Each Other

And, you know, party on. Dude.

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Reply to topic  [ 2593 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 52  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: The Xbox one thread
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 10:11 
SupaMod
User avatar
"Praisebot"

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 17087
Location: Parts unknown
I thought I'd start this thread to keep all the new Xbox news in one place. I shall be watching it this evening as the conference will be available on the 360's dashboard.

I'm kind of excited... but more than that, I'm thinking that they'll screw it up with micro transactions, adverts, apps I'll never use and Kinect.

But we shall see!

So.. What is everyone expecting and hoping to see?

**Edit** Thanks to Zaphod, here's a live stream link.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/news ... event.html


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 10:30 
8-Bit Champion
User avatar
Two heads are better than one

Joined: 16th Apr, 2008
Posts: 14513
Well we know the new COD is going to be there - I'm expecting something Halo / something Gears / something Forza

I expect streaming games to twitch.tv (since thats the big name in streaming and Sony went with someone else).

I'm hoping for a similar controller (the 360 one is great) , and unfortunately a built in Kinect :-(

Major Nelson mentioned that he's hosting a panel / discussion thing after the show which I assume will be them showing off the streamy stuff in more detail

For names I think its just going to be 'xbox'


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 10:42 
User avatar

Joined: 31st Mar, 2008
Posts: 1883
I am interested in a games console, all the rest of it can GTF. Basically, I am going to wait until third-party games can be compared in performance on Xbox vs PS4 and take it from there.

Of course, an interesting exclusive original IP, like Halo was all those years ago, could make all the difference, especially if it's an original concept as well, as opposed to another shooter franchise. I am not holding my breath, though.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:08 
User avatar
Bad Girl

Joined: 20th Apr, 2008
Posts: 14415
I'm going to say for games announcements, erm, a new Gears? Some car game?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:14 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 16625
I predict that everyone will moan like fuck about how shit it's all going to be and then eventually buy one and enjoy playing games on it. Seems to be the way these things usually go. Unless it's Nintendo.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:40 
User avatar
Chinny chin chin

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 15695
Does this mean we have to decide which one we are all buying?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:41 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 32624
Eventually buy one, perhaps. But I'll be getting at most one of the PS4 and Durango this year, with the other coming years later. So the moaning won't be as empty as you imply.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:42 
User avatar

Joined: 31st Mar, 2008
Posts: 1883
Buy a PS3 and let's play some GT5.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:42 
User avatar
Chinny chin chin

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 15695
zaphod79 wrote:
For names I think its just going to be 'Xbox 4000'


FTFY. Because sticking 4000 after anything makes it sound better. FACT!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:43 
User avatar
Chinny chin chin

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 15695
lasermink wrote:
Buy a PS3 and let's play some GT5.


We're gonna be playing Grand Trusimo?

[slashes wrists]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:44 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 16625
lasermink wrote:
Buy a PS3 and let's play some GT5.

I was playing GT5 last night as it goes. It really does shit all over Forza from a great height in terms of how well it conveys the feeling of driving a car.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:44 
User avatar
Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48892
Location: Cheshire
chinnyhill10 wrote:
zaphod79 wrote:
For names I think its just going to be 'Xbox 4000'


FTFY. Because sticking 4000 after anything makes it sound better. FACT!


3990 better than 10!

_________________
Mr Chris wrote:
MaliA isn't just the best thing on the internet - he's the best thing ever.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:46 
User avatar

Joined: 31st Mar, 2008
Posts: 1883
Xbox 2600. Will crash the video game market. PREDICT!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:51 
User avatar

Joined: 31st Mar, 2008
Posts: 1883
markg wrote:
lasermink wrote:
Buy a PS3 and let's play some GT5.

I was playing GT5 last night as it goes. It really does shit all over Forza from a great height in terms of how well it conveys the feeling of driving a car.

I only bought a couple of months ago and not played it much, but it was quite a revelation over Forza. I haven't tried multiplayer. Is it as easy to set up games as in Forza? Is there a BEEX GT Club of Gentlemen?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:52 
User avatar
Chinny chin chin

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 15695
markg wrote:
lasermink wrote:
Buy a PS3 and let's play some GT5.

I was playing GT5 last night as it goes. It really does shit all over Forza from a great height in terms of how well it conveys the feeling of driving a car.


Games are supposed to be fun. Forza is fun. Some of the best gaming I've ever had has been on our Forza nights.

My previous experience of GT is an endless grind which involves you driving between cones before you can have a better car and then giving up because it's all so fucking tedious.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:54 
SupaMod
User avatar
"Praisebot"

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 17087
Location: Parts unknown
In my opinion a fun racing game should be something like Ridge Racer. Personally I prefer the arcade racers than the realistic simulations.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:56 
User avatar

Joined: 31st Mar, 2008
Posts: 1883
chinnyhill10 wrote:
markg wrote:
lasermink wrote:
Buy a PS3 and let's play some GT5.

I was playing GT5 last night as it goes. It really does shit all over Forza from a great height in terms of how well it conveys the feeling of driving a car.


Games are supposed to be fun. Forza is fun. Some of the best gaming I've ever had has been on our Forza nights.

My previous experience of GT is an endless grind which involves you driving between cones before you can have a better car and then giving up because it's all so fucking tedious.

I don't know what would prevent you from doing the exact same thing in GT5, but I haven't tried yet truth to be told.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:57 
User avatar
Chinny chin chin

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 15695
TheVision wrote:
In my opinion a fun racing game should be something like Ridge Racer. Personally I prefer the arcade racers than the realistic simulations.


On the Forza nights we have engineered arcade style racing into it. That's half the fun. Some of the races are so insane if it were real we'd all be dead or badly injured by the end of race.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 12:00 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 16625
chinnyhill10 wrote:
markg wrote:
lasermink wrote:
Buy a PS3 and let's play some GT5.

I was playing GT5 last night as it goes. It really does shit all over Forza from a great height in terms of how well it conveys the feeling of driving a car.


Games are supposed to be fun. Forza is fun. Some of the best gaming I've ever had has been on our Forza nights.

My previous experience of GT is an endless grind which involves you driving between cones before you can have a better car and then giving up because it's all so fucking tedious.
To most people Forza is the antithesis of fun as well, it's a subjective term, see. I like Forza though for the reasons you mention, just despite the fact that GT5 feels so much better. Fortunately I don't need to choose, I can drive either whenever I like.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 12:01 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 16625
lasermink wrote:
I don't know what would prevent you from doing the exact same thing in GT5, but I haven't tried yet truth to be told.

The fact that most people here don't have a PS3 would be the main one.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 12:10 
User avatar
Sleepyhead

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 27354
Location: Kidbrooke
lasermink wrote:
Xbox 2600. Will crash the video game market. PREDICT!


Xbox 404?

_________________
We are young despite the years
We are concern
We are hope, despite the times


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 12:23 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 32624
markg wrote:
The fact that most people here don't have a PS3 would be the main one.
Is that true?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 12:28 
User avatar
EvilTrousers

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 3073
I predict;

A new kind of convergence device that you can watch films and TV on, play games on, browse the internet on then, when you leave the house it folds down into a mobile phone / tablet that you can continue to play games on and make phones calls on. You can also wear it as a "Google Glass" kind of hat.

The Xbox Guide Button will be replaced with a "Buy" button similar to Amazon's one click ordering system to remove those awkward barriers between Microsoft and your wallet.

It will not need to be connected to the internet but you will need to install an RFID GPS tracker into the back of your neck so that it knows where you are at all times and will only let you alone play on the console. Anyone without the RFID tag attempting to play on the console will have their retinas burned out by the new Laser Kinect system.

80% of the dashboard will become devoted to Lynx adverts.

You heard it here first.

_________________
Everyone but Zardoz is better than me at videogames.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 12:29 
SupaMod
User avatar
"Praisebot"

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 17087
Location: Parts unknown
It's probably more true to say that most people own a PS3, but don't play them. I know I don't.. In fact, I don't think it's even plugged in.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 12:43 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 69705
Location: Your Mum
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
markg wrote:
The fact that most people here don't have a PS3 would be the main one.
Is that true?

I'm not sure. Poll time?

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 12:54 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 16625
I guess quite a few do then, but how many of those have a headset for it? I don't and it's pretty essential for any sort of Bezzie gaming scenario.

It always seemed a strange omission to me to leave those out of the standard PS3 packages.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 12:59 
User avatar

Joined: 31st Mar, 2008
Posts: 1883
markg wrote:
I guess quite a few do then, but how many of those have a headset for it? I don't and it's pretty essential for any sort of Bezzie gaming scenario.

It always seemed a strange omission to me to leave those out of the standard PS3 packages.

Oh yeah, I don't have a headset either, but I would get one for beex gt5 shenanigans, assuming the game supports it, which I think it does.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 13:10 
User avatar
Hibernating Druid

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 49335
Location: Standing on your mother's Porsche
Trousers!

_________________
SD&DG Illustrated! Behance Bleep Bloop

'Not without talent but dragged down by bass turgidity'


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 13:12 
User avatar
Chinny chin chin

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 15695
The grand BEEX console owner survey has been launched. Vote now!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 13:18 
User avatar
Sleepyhead

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 27354
Location: Kidbrooke
I'll probably resist for a while, and then buy whatever the most people have. Unless it's a Wii-U. That can bugger off.

_________________
We are young despite the years
We are concern
We are hope, despite the times


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 13:22 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 32624
markg wrote:
It always seemed a strange omission to me to leave those out of the standard PS3 packages.

Which of the 360 packages have headsets in? None of mine did.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 13:23 
User avatar
Chinny chin chin

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 15695
Curiosity wrote:
I'll probably resist for a while, and then buy whatever the most people have. Unless it's a Wii-U. That can bugger off.


:this:

It's what I did with the 360. And it worked out quite well although I wish I'd had it 6 months earlier.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 13:23 
User avatar
Chinny chin chin

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 15695
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
markg wrote:
It always seemed a strange omission to me to leave those out of the standard PS3 packages.

Which of the 360 packages have headsets in? None of mine did.


Mine did. Also came with the wireless controller if that helps.

Don't ask me what package it was. I have no recollection at all.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 13:23 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 16625
Yeah, both of mine did.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 13:24 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 69705
Location: Your Mum
chinnyhill10 wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
markg wrote:
It always seemed a strange omission to me to leave those out of the standard PS3 packages.

Which of the 360 packages have headsets in? None of mine did.

Mine did. Also came with the wireless controller if that helps.

I'm also fairly sure mine did, but it was a fucking long time ago now, so maybe not.

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 13:26 
User avatar
Hibernating Druid

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 49335
Location: Standing on your mother's Porsche
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
markg wrote:
It always seemed a strange omission to me to leave those out of the standard PS3 packages.

Which of the 360 packages have headsets in? None of mine did.

My original white 360 and my resident evil red 360 came with controllers and headsets.

_________________
SD&DG Illustrated! Behance Bleep Bloop

'Not without talent but dragged down by bass turgidity'


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 13:30 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 32624
Both of my bought-at-retail 360s were Core/Arcade units. That's probably why I didn't get headsets.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 13:35 
User avatar
Master of dodgy spelling....

Joined: 25th Sep, 2008
Posts: 22622
Location: shropshire, uk
Grim... wrote:
chinnyhill10 wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
markg wrote:
It always seemed a strange omission to me to leave those out of the standard PS3 packages.

Which of the 360 packages have headsets in? None of mine did.

Mine did. Also came with the wireless controller if that helps.

I'm also fairly sure mine did, but it was a fucking long time ago now, so maybe not.


Mine is a Xbox 360 S, it came with 2 controllers but only one headset

_________________
MetalAngel wrote:
Kovacs: From 'unresponsive' to 'kebab' in 3.5 seconds


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 13:44 
User avatar
Sleepyhead

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 27354
Location: Kidbrooke
A concern I have at present is that if there is a mass switchover to the PS4 (fine by me, I have no fanboy loyalties), will all our 'gamertag' names already be taken?

_________________
We are young despite the years
We are concern
We are hope, despite the times


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 13:47 
User avatar
Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48892
Location: Cheshire
Curiosity wrote:
A concern I have at present is that if there is a mass switchover to the PS4 (fine by me, I have no fanboy loyalties), will all our 'gamertag' names already be taken?


*lightbulb moment*

_________________
Mr Chris wrote:
MaliA isn't just the best thing on the internet - he's the best thing ever.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 13:53 
User avatar
Excellent Painter

Joined: 30th Apr, 2008
Posts: 7325
Location: Behind you
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Both of my bought-at-retail 360s were Core/Arcade units. That's probably why I didn't get headsets.

That's almost certainly correct as both machines I bought at retail had headsets, neither of which were the Core/Arcade units.

_________________
twitter || website
Malibu Stacy. Everybody's favourite back seat driver


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 13:56 
User avatar
Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48892
Location: Cheshire
Mine came with a headset. I don't know what it was, though.

_________________
Mr Chris wrote:
MaliA isn't just the best thing on the internet - he's the best thing ever.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 14:13 
User avatar
Paws for thought

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 17161
Location: Just Outside That London, England, Europe
Curiosity wrote:
A concern I have at present is that if there is a mass switchover to the PS4 (fine by me, I have no fanboy loyalties), will all our 'gamertag' names already be taken?

Depends on how generic you are.

Mine was available.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 14:16 
8-Bit Champion
User avatar
Two heads are better than one

Joined: 16th Apr, 2008
Posts: 14513
Mr Dave wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
A concern I have at present is that if there is a mass switchover to the PS4 (fine by me, I have no fanboy loyalties), will all our 'gamertag' names already be taken?

Depends on how generic you are.

Mine was available.


Whereas mines was not when I got a PS3 (which i had before the Xbox) - i think its probably just that i grabbed it at some point in the past via the Playstation website at the time and could never remember which email address was linked to it so I have a random PSN name


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 14:18 
SupaMod
User avatar
"Praisebot"

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 17087
Location: Parts unknown
I use the same as on my Xbox... TheXboxVision.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 14:39 
User avatar
Sleepyhead

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 27354
Location: Kidbrooke
TheVision wrote:
I use the same as on my Xbox... TheXboxVision.


Never play Call of Duty with voice chat enabled. Screaming children will abuse you.

_________________
We are young despite the years
We are concern
We are hope, despite the times


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 16:36 
8-Bit Champion
User avatar
Two heads are better than one

Joined: 16th Apr, 2008
Posts: 14513
Curiosity wrote:
Never play Call of Duty with voice chat enabled. Screaming children will abuse you.


That is of course regardless of system , gamertag or anything else :-)

Ways to watch / catch up on the reveal

http://majornelson.com/2013/05/21/xboxr ... -to-watch/

Quote:
Watch the main event today at 1p ET/10a PT/17:00 GMT via the live global stream that will be available on Xbox LIVE and Xbox.com. If you are in the US or Canada, you can also watch the broadcast on Spike TV.

Note: The Xbox.com version should be viewable on most mobile devices.

If you have a Windows Phone 8, download the free Live Event Player to view watch the stream.

The full show will be available later in the day for viewing via video on demand on Xbox.com and Xbox LIVE.

PLUS later today at 3p ET/12n PT/19:00 GMT I am hosting a special #XbxoReveal recap show that will ONLY be streamed on Twitch.tv During this time I’ll be joined by guests who will go into more detail about our #XboxReveal announcements. This will be available later in the day on Twitch.tv for playback as well.

If you can’t join us for the live event, you can follow me on Twitter where I’ll be sharing the news throughout the day.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 16:58 
8-Bit Champion
User avatar
Two heads are better than one

Joined: 16th Apr, 2008
Posts: 14513
More locations to watch the stream some have pre-shows starting in a few minutes :

http://www.twitch.tv/gamespot

http://www.gametrailers.com/netstorage/ ... /live.html

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hub/reveal

Text and occasional images (but not live video) here for those who cant get a stream to work

http://live.theverge.com/next-xbox-live-blog/

or

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013- ... eveal-live


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 18:09 
User avatar
Master of dodgy spelling....

Joined: 25th Sep, 2008
Posts: 22622
Location: shropshire, uk
That looks nice..

_________________
MetalAngel wrote:
Kovacs: From 'unresponsive' to 'kebab' in 3.5 seconds


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Xbox reveal today!
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 18:20 
User avatar
ugvm'er at heart...

Joined: 4th Mar, 2010
Posts: 22387
Intelligent TV. Just the thing that looks cool, but nobody will ever use past a five minute play, and no chance it will be fully working outside the US.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 2593 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 52  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: The Greys and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search within this thread:
You are using the 'Ted' forum. Bill doesn't really exist any more. Bogus!
Want to help out with the hosting / advertising costs? That's very nice of you.
Are you on a mobile phone? Try http://beex.co.uk/m/
RIP, Owen. RIP, MrC. RIP, Dimmers.

Powered by a very Grim... version of phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.