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 Post subject: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 9:40 
SupaMod
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Average speed cameras. You know, the ones they put on roadworks on the motorway.
Do any of you know anyone that has been caught by these? Because I don't. And no-one I talk to does. And I'm beginning to think they're a bit fake.

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 9:42 
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Grim... wrote:
Average speed cameras. You know, the ones they put on roadworks on the motorway.
Do any of you know anyone that has been caught by these? Because I don't. And no-one I talk to does. And I'm beginning to think they're a bit fake.

I was. Was caught going 56mph in a 50 zone at 3am on an empty motorway. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 9:43 
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Master of dodgy spelling....

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Grim... wrote:
Average speed cameras. You know, the ones they put on roadworks on the motorway.
Do any of you know anyone that has been caught by these? Because I don't. And no-one I talk to does. And I'm beginning to think they're a bit fake.



Could be, I just slap cruise control on, and accept I will be a few mins longer :)

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 9:44 
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A friend of mine was done on the M6 roadworks a year or so ago for 65 in the 50.

I just go at an indicated 54-55mph because I know that's how far my speedo over-reads (by checking with GPS) and I go sailing past everyone else but still stay at 50mph ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 9:47 
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myoptikakaka wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Average speed cameras. You know, the ones they put on roadworks on the motorway.
Do any of you know anyone that has been caught by these? Because I don't. And no-one I talk to does. And I'm beginning to think they're a bit fake.

I was. Was caught going 56mph in a 50 zone at 3am on an empty motorway. :(

Oh well, that's the end of that, then.

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 9:52 
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Do you think they suffer from the same problem some of the other average speed camera suffer from... as in each camera only tracks one lane so switching lanes between cameras could get you away with a ticket... Although I'd imagine even then it depends on the wide angle size of the camera set-up, the cross over of the cameras and if they've started sharing the information been the two cameras, I mean it's not going to be exact is it?


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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 9:58 
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itsallwater wrote:
Do you think they suffer from the same problem some of the other average speed camera suffer from... as in each camera only tracks one lane so switching lanes between cameras could get you away with a ticket... Although I'd imagine even then it depends on the wide angle size of the camera set-up, the cross over of the cameras and if they've started sharing the information been the two cameras, I mean it's not going to be exact is it?

I doubt the "working out" is done by the camera's - they probably just send "[numberplate] taken at [time]" to a database, and let a computer work it out.

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 10:12 
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itsallwater wrote:
Do you think they suffer from the same problem some of the other average speed camera suffer from... as in each camera only tracks one lane so switching lanes between cameras could get you away with a ticket...


The first generation did but not any more.


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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 10:42 
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myoptikakaka wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Average speed cameras. You know, the ones they put on roadworks on the motorway.
Do any of you know anyone that has been caught by these? Because I don't. And no-one I talk to does. And I'm beginning to think they're a bit fake.

I was. Was caught going 56mph in a 50 zone at 3am on an empty motorway. :(

Pretty much these exact numbers except it was a Sunday morning on an empty motorway. I suspect it was even the same cameras :S

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 10:43 
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Alberto wrote:
myoptikakaka wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Average speed cameras. You know, the ones they put on roadworks on the motorway.
Do any of you know anyone that has been caught by these? Because I don't. And no-one I talk to does. And I'm beginning to think they're a bit fake.

I was. Was caught going 56mph in a 50 zone at 3am on an empty motorway. :(

Pretty much these exact numbers except it was a Sunday morning on an empty motorway. I suspect it was even the same cameras :S

Unlikely, unless you were heading up the M1 from London. It was somewhere between J6-10 when they were doing the widening.

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 10:56 
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I read somewhere (can't find it at the moment) that there are plans to roll these buggers out permanently across the Motorway network, so for instance you get on the M4 in south Wales and then drive to London around the M25 and then up the M11, it will track you through the whole lot, the computer system was going through tests when i read about this, pretty sure it was a email from a friend who works for SCSL (Speed Check Services Limited) the bastards behind the SPECS cameras.

Hope that plan gets scrapped, would be a nightmare

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 10:59 
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It's awesome if you know there's a services within the area controlled, and you need to stop.

Free speeding!

:D

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 11:28 
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Curiosity wrote:
It's awesome if you know there's a services within the area controlled, and you need to stop.

Free speeding!

:D

They often put cameras on the entrance / exit ramps for services now.

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 11:32 
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Grim... wrote:
itsallwater wrote:
Do you think they suffer from the same problem some of the other average speed camera suffer from... as in each camera only tracks one lane so switching lanes between cameras could get you away with a ticket... Although I'd imagine even then it depends on the wide angle size of the camera set-up, the cross over of the cameras and if they've started sharing the information been the two cameras, I mean it's not going to be exact is it?

I doubt the "working out" is done by the camera's - they probably just send "[numberplate] taken at [time]" to a database, and let a computer work it out.

:this:
I think the 'only in one lane' nonsense was an urban myth started by people who don't understand how computers actually work. I seriously doubt the cameras even bother storing lane information (except perhaps an ID of the camera that read the numberplate could be tracked back to which lane it was in). Only comparing cars in the same lane would be significantly more complex than just bunging all number plates into a big database with a timestamp.


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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 11:41 
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Off topic, there is talk of raising the speed limit to 80 on motorways.

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 11:44 
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Also, the police are (maybe) to be given powers to slap people with a £100 fine for "driving aggressively".

Which can fuck right off.

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 11:48 
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Grim... wrote:
Also, the police are (maybe) to be given powers to slap people with a £100 fine for "driving aggressively".

Which can fuck right off.


From the Beeb

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13356057

Quote:
On-the-spot fines planned for careless driving

Police will get powers to fine careless drivers on the spot, rather than taking them to court, as part of a government strategy to make Britain's roads safer.

Ministers say motorists who tail-gate, undertake or cut others up often go unpunished and that introducing instant penalties would be more efficient.

Offenders would get a fine of at least £80 and three points on their licence.

Critics say the approach - likely to be introduced in 2012 in England, Scotland and Wales - is too simplistic.

Currently motorists who have driven in a careless manner have to be prosecuted through the courts.

Transport Secretary Philip Hammond will give a written statement to MPs on Wednesday explaining the new strategy for England, Scotland and Wales.

Following this, the proposals will have to go through Parliament.

Plans for an 80mph speed limit for motorways and reduced speeds on country roads are not included in the legislation, but are part of ongoing plans.

Mr Hammond told the BBC that the fines would not change the government's approach towards serious offenders but was for "low-level" offences.

He said: "We're going to crack down on the most reckless and dangerous drivers, we're going to support those who are basically law-abiding but who perhaps have an occasional lapse."

The Department for Transport (DfT) said it would also include a clampdown on drug-driving and the closing of loopholes that allow people to escape drink-driving charges.

Disqualified drivers would have to undergo retraining, and possibly take another test, before they got their licence back.

Courts would be encouraged to make more use of their powers to seize vehicles for the most serious offences.

There will be support for new drivers who need to hone their driving skills, and wider range of retraining and education courses for cases of less serious offences.
'Greatest danger'

A DfT spokesman said: "By giving the police the tools to deal with those who present the greatest danger to others we can make our roads even safer.

"While seeking to do everything possible to tackle the most dangerous drivers, the strategy will also help the responsible majority to improve their driving.

"This is the government's twin approach to improving road safety."

But the Institute of Advanced Motorists said on-the-spot fines were not necessarily the right approach for careless driving because, unlike speeding, cases were often not clear-cut.

It also said their introduction could make police reluctant to enter into lengthy prosecutions even in more serious cases.

Professor Stephen Glaister, director of the RAC Foundation, agreed that the proposals should help tackle anti-social driving but expressed concern over whether the police had the necessary resources.

He said: "The three things needed to make these plans work are enforcement, enforcement, enforcement. With police services being cut it is far from certain the desired results can be achieved. Without adequate enforcement there is no strategy."


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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 11:48 
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KovacsC wrote:
Off topic, there is talk of raising the speed limit to 80 on motorways.


There has been talk like that forever, it's pretty much the unofficial speed limit these days anyway.
For purely selfish reasons I prefer it at 70, it's easier to pass the dawdlers and incompetent. Give them the idea they can drive at 80 and passing them becomes that little bit more difficult...


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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 11:54 
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zaphod79 wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Also, the police are (maybe) to be given powers to slap people with a £100 fine for "driving aggressively".

Which can fuck right off.


From the Beeb

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13356057

Quote:
On-the-spot fines planned for careless driving

Police will get powers to fine careless drivers on the spot, rather than taking them to court, as part of a government strategy to make Britain's roads safer.

Ministers say motorists who tail-gate, undertake or cut others up often go unpunished and that introducing instant penalties would be more efficient.

Offenders would get a fine of at least £80 and three points on their licence.

Critics say the approach - likely to be introduced in 2012 in England, Scotland and Wales - is too simplistic.

Currently motorists who have driven in a careless manner have to be prosecuted through the courts.

Transport Secretary Philip Hammond will give a written statement to MPs on Wednesday explaining the new strategy for England, Scotland and Wales.

Following this, the proposals will have to go through Parliament.

Plans for an 80mph speed limit for motorways and reduced speeds on country roads are not included in the legislation, but are part of ongoing plans.

Mr Hammond told the BBC that the fines would not change the government's approach towards serious offenders but was for "low-level" offences.

He said: "We're going to crack down on the most reckless and dangerous drivers, we're going to support those who are basically law-abiding but who perhaps have an occasional lapse."

The Department for Transport (DfT) said it would also include a clampdown on drug-driving and the closing of loopholes that allow people to escape drink-driving charges.

Disqualified drivers would have to undergo retraining, and possibly take another test, before they got their licence back.

Courts would be encouraged to make more use of their powers to seize vehicles for the most serious offences.

There will be support for new drivers who need to hone their driving skills, and wider range of retraining and education courses for cases of less serious offences.
'Greatest danger'

A DfT spokesman said: "By giving the police the tools to deal with those who present the greatest danger to others we can make our roads even safer.

"While seeking to do everything possible to tackle the most dangerous drivers, the strategy will also help the responsible majority to improve their driving.

"This is the government's twin approach to improving road safety."

But the Institute of Advanced Motorists said on-the-spot fines were not necessarily the right approach for careless driving because, unlike speeding, cases were often not clear-cut.

It also said their introduction could make police reluctant to enter into lengthy prosecutions even in more serious cases.

Professor Stephen Glaister, director of the RAC Foundation, agreed that the proposals should help tackle anti-social driving but expressed concern over whether the police had the necessary resources.

He said: "The three things needed to make these plans work are enforcement, enforcement, enforcement. With police services being cut it is far from certain the desired results can be achieved. Without adequate enforcement there is no strategy."


I support the idea behind giving points for that behaviour, but giving that power to the police directly, with their track record of making good on-the-spot decisions...


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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 11:55 
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The main reason the dangerous / aggressive / careless /whatever thing bothers me is because it's a matter of opinion, and the police should not be allowed to prosecute people.

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 11:55 
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Like what Trooper said, but without the massive quote.

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 11:56 
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I also dislike fixed fines, but that's an entirely separate issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 11:57 
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Grim... wrote:
Also, the police are (maybe) to be given powers to slap people with a £100 fine for "driving aggressively".

Which can fuck right off.


As long as it is used sensibly and not as a ridiculous money-making scheme, the it seems pretty sensible to me.

And don't come back with the ridiculous 'if it didn't cause an accident it's fine' line, as that's so evidently bollocks.

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 11:57 
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Curiosity wrote:
And don't come back with the ridiculous 'if it didn't cause an accident it's fine' line, as that's so evidently bollocks.

Wrong-monkey types slow (and wrong (and gets arrested for rape)).

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 11:59 
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Well the new proposed powers are shit, if they want to make people drive better try focusing on the muppets who just sit in the middle lane, if they drove correctly then that would deal with the undertaking side of it and free up the other 2 lanes so less tailgating would happen also, well thats how i see it anyhow

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 12:04 
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Slightly Green wrote:
Well the new proposed powers are shit, if they want to make people drive better try focusing on the muppets who just sit in the middle lane, if they drove correctly then that would deal with the undertaking side of it and free up the other 2 lanes so less tailgating would happen also, well thats how i see it anyhow
:this: The cunts shouldn't be sitting there for long enough to give you the opportunity nevermind make you consider passing in the inside lane.

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 12:19 
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I'd be broke within a week, depending on definition of careless. I accelerate briskly, shall we say, but never dangerously. Many people would consider it to be careless driving, no doubt.


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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 12:41 
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Grim... wrote:
Also, the police are (maybe) to be given powers to slap people with a £100 fine for "driving aggressively".

Which can fuck right off.


I think this is part of kern's idea that after a year Home Secretaries become a little bit bonkers and start making all kinds of suggestions, like "arresting people by post" and "necrophilia"

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 12:48 
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MaliA wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Also, the police are (maybe) to be given powers to slap people with a £100 fine for "driving aggressively".

Which can fuck right off.


I think this is part of kern's idea that after a year Home Secretaries become a little bit bonkers and start making all kinds of suggestions, like "arresting people by post" and "necrophilia"


Heh. Not just the Home Secretary, though that's where it's most evident. (Hmm... I need to re-read or rewatch 'The Thick of It'... 'Pet ASBOs')
I'm not sure what the libertarian position on necrophilia is. Presumably it relies, like usual, on correct assignment of property rights over the deceased's remains. Ick.

But yes, it's the kind of crap I'd expect Labour to have come out with. It's not that driving carelessly shouldn't be punished, it's that (as others have already said here), giving the police this power means it'll end up being used arbitrarily. And it's going to be your word against the cops, with Plod in the superior position.


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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 13:54 
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they can and do catch people but not convinced they are working all the time

my mate was done 57 in a 50 on the M6 a year or so ago

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 14:18 
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Part of the problem in this country is the slightly oddball points system. For minor infringements, there should be one- or two-point 'offences'. Getting three for doing a touch over the limit on a dual-carriageway when there are no other cars around seems mental to me. As for the 'instant' idea, they can fuck right off unless it's reserved to avoid people involved in clearly dangerous/reckless driving going to court. (In other words, you'd need to be stopped for something that could be prosecuted successfully, rather than because some copper fancies pulling you over because you weren't driving absolutely perfectly.)


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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 14:20 
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Grim... wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
And don't come back with the ridiculous 'if it didn't cause an accident it's fine' line, as that's so evidently bollocks.

Wrong-monkey types slow (and wrong (and gets arrested for rape)).


Huh?

You makey no sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 14:23 
SupaMod
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Curiosity wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
And don't come back with the ridiculous 'if it didn't cause an accident it's fine' line, as that's so evidently bollocks.

Wrong-monkey types slow (and wrong (and gets arrested for rape)).


Huh?

You makey no sense.

I'd already described why I thought what I thought before you posted, hence slow.

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 14:24 
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Grim... wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
And don't come back with the ridiculous 'if it didn't cause an accident it's fine' line, as that's so evidently bollocks.

Wrong-monkey types slow (and wrong (and gets arrested for rape)).


Huh?

You makey no sense.

I'd already described why I thought what I thought before you posted, hence slow.


Yes, but not sure where the rape bit is coming from.

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 14:29 
SupaMod
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Curiosity wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
And don't come back with the ridiculous 'if it didn't cause an accident it's fine' line, as that's so evidently bollocks.

Wrong-monkey types slow (and wrong (and gets arrested for rape)).

Huh?
You makey no sense.

I'd already described why I thought what I thought before you posted, hence slow.

Yes, but not sure where the rape bit is coming from.

Having a willy makes you more likely to rape someone, a bit like being drunk makes you more likely to crash, only far, far more likely ;)

Don't take that too seriously.

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 14:34 
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Sleepyhead

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Grim... wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
And don't come back with the ridiculous 'if it didn't cause an accident it's fine' line, as that's so evidently bollocks.

Wrong-monkey types slow (and wrong (and gets arrested for rape)).

Huh?
You makey no sense.

I'd already described why I thought what I thought before you posted, hence slow.

Yes, but not sure where the rape bit is coming from.

Having a willy makes you more likely to rape someone, a bit like being drunk makes you more likely to crash, only far, far more likely ;)

Don't take that too seriously.


Oh, I won't. It's not even comparable, for a start.

BTW, I assume you'd be fine with me getting a machine gun and firing bullets in the general direction of your family? I mean, as long as I somehow failed to kill them, no harm no foul, right?

(also thoroughly tongue in cheek)

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 14:44 
SupaMod
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Curiosity wrote:
BTW, I assume you'd be fine with me getting a machine gun and firing bullets in the general direction of your family? I mean, as long as I somehow failed to kill them, no harm no foul, right?

(also thoroughly tongue in cheek)

As long as you don't scare or upset them :kiss:

But in all seriousness, are you okay with the police being given powers of prosecution in non-discreet circumstances?

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 14:54 
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Sleepyhead

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 27346
Location: Kidbrooke
Grim... wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
BTW, I assume you'd be fine with me getting a machine gun and firing bullets in the general direction of your family? I mean, as long as I somehow failed to kill them, no harm no foul, right?

(also thoroughly tongue in cheek)

As long as you don't scare or upset them :kiss:

But in all seriousness, are you okay with the police being given powers of prosecution in non-discreet circumstances?


Only if they don't abuse them.

[/utopia]

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 14:56 
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Level 6 Laser Lotus

Joined: 26th Aug, 2010
Posts: 2069
[/utopia mode on] Hey why do we even need police, every one is happy and respectful to each other...hmm do we even need laws anymore?[/utopia mode off]

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 15:53 
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Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48810
Location: Cheshire
Well, for the next 7 days, we're living without David Laws.

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 16:56 
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Excellent Member

Joined: 12th Sep, 2009
Posts: 41
Location: Nottingham, UK
I managed to get myself an on-the-spot £60 fine yesterday, pulled off and started putting seat belt on after the car had moved say 10ft? -- bad news for me was a copper watched me do it, technically I broke the law and that's that, but jeez, seemed a tad harsh.


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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 17:10 
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Board Mother

Joined: 6th Apr, 2008
Posts: 11376
Location: Mount Olympus
MaliA wrote:
Well, for the next 7 days, we're living without David Laws.

Are you going on Wife Swap or something?

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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 17:12 
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Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48810
Location: Cheshire
Goddess Jasmine wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Well, for the next 7 days, we're living without David Laws.

Are you going on Wife Swap or something?


Hopefully, I'll get a piano.


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 Post subject: Re: Average Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 12:00 
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baron of techno

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 24136
Location: fife
They've got these all along the motorway expansion near Cumbernauld - 40 limit for like 10 miles. I was in a bit of a hurry when I was over there a few weeks ago so bombed along a couple of sections flat out and ducked tight in behind trucks (I mean very tight) to avoid the cameras. No actual roadwork or workers about obv, just cones.
No letter yet :S


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