Be Excellent To Each Other

I've never been able to 'deal' with dogs. I always assume that they intend to kill me from the off. It's to the extent that if I walk to the shop and back, I'll go the long way around rather than take the ginnel if I see someone with a dog at the other end, and prefer to cross the street so I can avoid dogs coming the other way.

However, if someone has a dog, I'm wary of it for the first 5 minutes or so, and then I relax in its presence. For example, brother in law has a Neapolitan Mastiff which I am now find around, even though it's like being hit by a freight train when it runs at you, and someone had a Rottweiller in Chavpub that I was quite happy for it to rest its head on my lap.

So, what's the best way for me to deal with stranger's dogs when I'm out and about, either walking or on my pushbike?

Ideally, I'd like to make them stop barking and running at me and I wish to cow them.

I also really dislike dogs. That episode of Friends where Chandler is reviled for this was uncomfortable viewing.

Isn't that a completely normal and sensible reaction?

I would never be completely at ease with a dog until it's at ease with me first.

That's not a phobia, that's common sense. All dogs are killing machines, restrained to a greater or lesser degree from killing you only by training and/or physical force.

Even the best trained dog is still thinking, at the back of its stupid little brain, about when and how it can try to take over the pack and eat the babies.

I've got far better in recent years.

Dogs still single me out and come up to me as if I am some kind of canine sex god (muddy paws right up clean clothes, on one memorable occasions) but I don't freak out anymore. A stern look, usually accompanied by an authoritative 'down' usually does the trick. And once I realised that most pet dogs are easily kickable too, most fears vanished, although I've ever had to resort to that.

I have, once or twice. Not proud of it, but then tetanus shots aren't very pleasant either.

My dogs don't think.

With 'normal' dogs you want to approach just be passive, let them get a sniff of you (relaxed back of hand is usually best) and crouch down to their level. If the dog looks angry avoid direct eye contact and try to remain calm.

Don't be a pussy.

No!
What‽ Whoo interrobang!
Most dogs won't hurt you. Being afraid that every one of them will is not 'normal and sensible' or 'common sense'. You could easily swap out dogs for humans, car journeys or thunderstorms.
Or air flight, which I can't quite handle.

I was walking home from the pub one night, and a wolf/husky looking thing ran out of someone's garden and stopped me from going up the hill. I was terrified. It kept trying to herd me back down the hill, growling, hackles up, barking and getting closer. I tried shouting at it and being all stern and stuff, but the 100lbs of muscle and teeth didn't seem impressed. I considered kicking it, but then reconsidered on the basis of how unlikely it was I'd come off best in a barney between me and nature's idea of a perfect killing machine.

Eventually my shouting caused its owner to come out, who didn't apologise that their dangerous dog had escaped the garden and strarted trying to eat me.

That's an alien, durr.

All dogs are predators. They've just been trained (or not, as the case may be) not to follow their instincts. Of course, some have been bred to the point where they're physically not a threat to a human, but that doesn't stop miniature schnausers, for instance, going mental and having a go.

They were bioengineered, weren't they?

Selectively bred if my recollection of the HORROR that was AvP is true.

I was really quite terrified of dogs most of my life. The first time I went through to Jen's parents house and met their dog, even though she was an old, slow, docile golden retriever I was still very nervous. I got used to her though and that helped me force myself to calm down around other dogs. Once the family got a puppy I was really nervous around it but because I was seeing it growing up and getting trained that helped relax me again, especially since it showed me that the growling and barking can sometimes be playful and it taught me to recognise when a dog is being playful rather than agressive. A dog running towards me a few years ago would have terrified me but now I recognise the signs that it is just having a wee run and probably not even bothering with me.
I still get a bit nervous when I am in this area and there are dogs about but that is simply just because I don't trust some people to be responsible dog owners and I think it is perfectly reasonable to be cautious until you see how the dog behaves.
I was talking about this yesterday actually and how if someone had told me two years ago that I would own my own dog I would have thought them quite mad. I'm head over heels for my wee pooch now though and I've only had her four days

So what? Did you miss the bit that said "Most dogs won't hurt you. Being afraid that every one of them will is not 'normal and sensible' or 'common sense'. "?

I have a fear of dogs, too.

When I was about 7 and visiting my mother in London she was attacked by a doberman. I was lifted out of the way by her husband of the time, but she had something like 40 or 50 stitches to to injuries. Last year one of my young brothers was riding his bike home from school when an alsatian ripped him of his bike, and tore part of his right arm so bad he needed surgery, also leaving him with a 10 inch scar down his leg. My mother was actually attacked twice by dobermans, two different ones, but I do not really recall the second time.

As Grim... says, most dogs won't hurt you, but that most won't is not so much comfort for me.

I didn't miss that, no, but what it should have said was "there is a low chance, but a chance nonetheless, that any given dog will attack you for reasons outside of your control".

So is being so scared of the other things I listed that you refuse to go near them (or their situations) common sense, too?

Grim...: you can't reason someone out of an irrational fear.

Quite, or I'd reason myself into getting on aeroplanes. I'm debating that being scared of dogs is an irrational fear.

Air travel, yes, because you have a higher per mile travelled chance of dying in an air crash than driving. Also, the parts are built to worse tolerances than toasters, to keep costs down. Or so I was told on my aeronautical engineering degree.

Thunderstorms, no, as you can very easily avoid being hit by lightning. And even without taking precautions, you've still got more chance of being attacked by a dog than you have of being hit by lightning.

People, depends. In London, certainly.

Doc: Being afraid of dogs isn't irrational - it has a very rational basis indeed.

Of course it is irrational, as it's out of all proportion to the actual risk involved, but it usually doesn't feel irrational to the person.

You aren't afraid of crossing the road, are you? You are careful, but not scared. But road crossings result in a lot more injury than dog ownership.

*What* is out of proportion? I don't run screaming from dogs. Dogs I don't know make me uncomfortable, as I have no idea how well trained they are, and a badly trained dog is a serious bloody threat. I've been around dogs most of my life (gran had a few, in-laws had a wonderful german shepherd I absolutely loved to bits - she died a couple of years ago, sadly), but I've been attacked by dogs before as well. I'd have thought ignoring personal experience would be the irrational approach.

The number of dogs we've had jump on our kids in the park is bonkers. Not all of them would bite, no, but still.

I had to kick a dog once, and I'd do it again if needed. The horrible little mutt got loose from over the road and bolted towards one of my cats, happily sitting in the front garden watching me work on the bike. It ran towards me with a look on its face giving every sense it didn't even register me as being there. Food. Swift kick as it approached, and it soon turned around.

Dogs aren't to be afraid of, just as humans generally aren't. You can get a fairly indicative gauge of them, and certainly be wary of the shady types, but there's no need to be afraid if it's on a moderately short lead.

I'm still wary of other people's cats, and I've kept cats for quite a while now. They need to get used to you, and you need to get used to them before each of you are completely comfortable and familiar with each other.

Quite, this is what I was meaning. You certainly shouldn't act nervous around the dog, that will make it worse if it's acting up.

And I maintain MaliA isn't "wrong" per se. It's natural to have a healthy respect if not fear for potentially dangerous, unpredictable things. You'd be more foolish not to.

My dog, Poppie is a big clumsy lump of lovable Kraut, duck chasing Weimaraner. It's lovely to watch Baba Z play and cuddle up to her, but they are NEVER left alone together. You can't humanise them too much as they are animals, obv, but show them love, respect and remind them of their place in the house hold and they are the greatest animals to have around you. Growing up with dogs in the family does help with reading their moods, not to mention being bitten a couple of times as a kid.

The best advice I can give to those who are scared is, don't act scared , let them get a smell of you if you feel comfortable (the back of a relaxed hand is best), don't bear down on them, try to get to their level if possible and look at their face and tail for signals. Tail up wagging = Hi buddy! Teeth and heckles up = FUCK OFF!!! Tail down, leaving a trail of arse piss = I'm scared!

Hope this helps, oh yeah, always get the first bite in.

Is that even if they're on a lead?

I've always been wary of dogs - mainly from childhood experiences like the paper round I used to do, my brother getting bitten in the chest by one (a group of kids were fussing round one and it went nuts - my brother didn't like dogs before then.. hates them now) and a couple of friends having their dogs bite them completely out of the blue.

I'll take cats any day.

I didn't know you were raised by wolves Z, but it does make sense.

Walking home the long way to avoid being near one. We're (well, I'm) not talking about your fear of dogs, we're talking about your comment that MaliA's fear was 'common sense'.

Good advice, that. Towering above an animal isn't going to let it settle down. Get down to their level, I always maintain, and don't directly face them if they look nervous. I love animals.

This is common sense.

I look forward to this thread getting An Dave.

I am. Even though I'm (overly-)careful and common-sensified resulting in a lack of injury or death (to date).

Yes, although less so.

I don't know. Two of my family have been scarred for life because of dogs, across three incidents. Of course, they live in an area of NW London where people keep dogs specifically to be aggressive, as a deterrent to violence upon themselves, or for intimidation (the first reason is always given by the owners, but I suspect it is the second). I don't think that a fear of dogs in those circumstances is so irrational.

Yeah I like cats but I couldn't eat a whole one.

sorry.

I'm entirely with Malia on this one sadly. I've struggled with dog-o-phobia my entire life and can never relax around a dog until I've known it for a long time.

I wasted many hours of my life walking the long way home from school to avoid walking past a garden with a big barking dog in it. When walking with a friend, aged maybe 11-12 at the time, a large Alsatian bounded out of a van and attacked my mate. I have never before or since been so fucking terrified in my life. Luckily the dog only ripped his jacket but I ran until my lungs burst from sheer terror.

Strange thing is, we used to have a dog that I loved, but even with her, I was always conscious of the teeth and claws.

Brr.

It's all about weighing it up against the amount of times that you haven't been attacked by a dog, though. It's perfectly sensible to be wary of dogs (and crossing the road, and motorway driving, etc), but actively being scared of those things because they can hurt you is still irrational.

Thinking back, I was fine around the Jebel Dogs in Oman, as if they came too close you lobbed a rock at them, or hit them with the Disco.

I recall cycling through a traveller camp in Poldice Valley as a teenager and being chased by a pack of dogs, and, regressing further, an aunt having a fucking insane Alsation. Maybe it's something to do with those things.

But a lot of deaths/injurys caused by road crossings are because the person doing the crossing do not obey the rules/guidances of the road. They will run across the six lanes of the North Circular road at high speed to avoid cars so as not to walk to the nearest bridge or crossing. There they are making an active choice to take the 'risk'. That's why so many road crossing deaths involve young men, rather than someone who actually crosses slower, but at a designated spot, and/or at a designated time (such as when the lights permit you to do so).

The crossing of a busy road is something that some people choose to take a risk over. Having a dog run up to you whilst you are going about town and minding your own business, or walking outside your own front door, or riding your bike home from school are not activities where you factor in a risk that equates to running across a busy road full of heavy cars, but you never known when an irresponsible dog owner might be about.

So, whilst road crossings may result in more deaths, a lot of the time it is only to those that take the risk, whereas dog attacks can happen to someone who is taking no risk that they can control.

I dunno, I could see genuine anguish in Daisy's eyes when, because we hadn't let her out as we were occupied with games, she came in and, unable to hold it any longer, widdled a bit on the floor.

I wonder if my fear dates back to when, as a child, I was on the seat on the back of a parent's bicycle when a huge black dog came running at us, barking viciously. In any event, you flash forward 27 years and I'm on my motorcycle when a rottweiler, enraged by the noise of the engine, tries to leap over the wall seperating the path from the road (North Rd Cardiff) and savage me, and is only barely held back by the owner from pouncing on me.

It's the whole irrationality part that gets me. I think it's possible to know something is perfectly or likely to be safe yet still fear it.
Eg: last year I went with friends to a local Scout camp for an aerial trek thing. It involved being harnessed to several wires, climbing up, then navigating a kind of obstacle course thing. Lots of rickety bridges, missing ledges, thin wires, that sort of thing. Now, I knew that I was perfectly safe, that there were at least two reserve cables, the support cable was thick, and the Scouts have pretty hefty insurance anyway. For some reason I don't understand my legs froze and it took ages to get them to move off the platform. It felt odd.

I used to dislike dogs until I got my Malamute (don't have now - ex wife story).

He was huge ask GJ and Joans as they met him. He was a big teddy bear type of dog, but fuck me he wasstrong and I would not trust him off a lead.

It is healthy to respect dogs..

Hah, I'd forgotten about that! Yeah, she was quite upset about that, to be fair. And it was entirely my fault, she'd been pacing around for ages.

For those who haven't seen Daisy:

Killing Machines, the both of them

Indeed they are. There's currently a war crimes tribunal discussing their ass gas.

I've got three dogs. I feed them on the offspring of lawyers, vegetarians and cat lovers ;-)

I've witnessed aggressive behaviour from other dogs, but I've been around them all my life and can tell the difference between "I'm scared so I'm barking" and "DIE FUCKER"
In my experience, dogs are a bit binary about this - if they're going to attack you they tend not to shout at you first for five minutes. Unless you're further away than the end of their leash/chain. But as I said, there's a big difference in those two displays of fangs and noise.

I do think it's unacceptable for dogs to bite or attack anyone, unless massively provoked.