Be Excellent To Each Other

Let me make it clear from the beginning - I'm not looking for sympathy or criticism, just hoping I might be able to help with this subject (even if it's just one of you, this post would be worth writing).

I always liked my beer, as did my friends. Stupidly, I thought only the hard stuff (especially wine and spirits) was dangerous enough to cause this condition. It might be a case of the bleeding obvious, but it really does creep up on you

As you can guess, I have it and at the latest possible stage (thanks to four years of abstention, I'm sill alive). If it was just about me, i could accept it more easily, but dragging my wife into the situation feels unforgivable and makes me feel awful.

So the point of this post was to offer any helpful information.

First of all, it's virtually symptom-free, so easy to miss when you would have expected some warning signs I went to the doc with swollen legs. He said it could be, but wasn't definitely liver-related.

So he sent me to hospital for what they like to call staging. The results were the worst possible - there is a point where things become decompensated, as they call it. It's basically a point of no return. You can't repair the damage, just put the brakes on the car and stay stable for as long as possible. No booze of any kind pretty much goes without saying.

So all I want to say is if you like your booze (even if it's just beer), it's definitely worth a check-up. That will involve an ultrasound test (completely painless) plus a blood test. If you have any doubts or suspicions, please do it.

I hope this has been of some help, even if for just one of you.

All the best to you all in these tough times.

Stay safe x

Sorry to hear this, so what next for you? Do you go on the transplant list?

Yes, very sorry to hear this, MrC. I hope a transplant is an option for you.

Very sorry to hear this, MrC.

[quote="markg"]Sorry to hear this, so what next for you? Do you go on the transplant list?[/quote
Yeah, already on the list, but alcohol- relalted cases tend to be at the back of the queue, as they should for something self-inflicted (plus there aren't that many spare livers out there...Still, thanks for your kindness - much appreciated)

Cheers, but really do think of my wife first, she should have not to deal with in any way. Who knows, I might get lucky, but I'd like to take this opportunity to say I've always enjoyed you posts.

Thank you so much. The odds aren't good, but I insist on staying optimistic.

However things turn out I'd like to thank you for all the entertainmaint you have provided x

Like a roomful of monkeys with typewriters attempting the works of Shakespeare, there are so many of them that entirely by happenstance there will be some good content eventually (I mean thank you).

You don’t have to answer the following at all if it’s not comfortable to do so, but in the spirit of sharing information about the disease, are you in any increased risk category at all, or was it the frequency and amount of drinking that’s caused it?

Also really sorry to hear this, MrC.





Just going to leave that there.

Sorry to hear this, MrC. I always like it when you pop up on this forum and it's a shame to see it's not under happier circumstances this time.

From what you described, it sounds like it might have been something a friend of mine had as he'd posted bits on Facebook about recent problems with his legs. He was always a drinker and from what I can gather, he didn't stop drinking and he passed away a few weeks ago. (I was debating whether or not to add that bit as it's rather doom and gloom and perhaps inappropriate, but as you've given the booze up, at least you've given yourself the best chance; fingers crossed here for a new liver for you)

Cheers, but really do think of my wife first, she should' have to deal with it. Who knows, I might get lucky, but I'd like to take this opportunity to say I've always enjoyed you posts.
Thanks and say Hi to Tanya when you get the chance

I'm sorry to hear this MrC.

MrC, stay strong. It sounds awful but I hope you can find some peace coming to terms with what’s happening.

I never liked booze much, but I’ve been a smoker. Even though I’d knocked the chuffs on the head I’m convinced at some point all that damage is coming back to fuck me in the future.

I’m also sorry the stress as caused you to go mad and like Myps posts.

Sorry to hear this, MrC. Best wishes from me, and on to you and yours.

Very sorry to read this MrC, but glad you felt comfortable posting it as it's something we need to be aware of. Stay strong and best wishes.

Very sorry to hear this, both for you and your wife, family and loved ones. Thank you for finding the strength to post here.

I'm more than happy to give details, that was the the reason for the post. Well the basic answer to that would be obviously "too much" I wasn't counting
but my best guess would be four beers every evening, bearing in mind that the German stuff is qute powerful, so clearly too much. So yes, it must have been the frequency and quantity that was the cause.

As I mentioned before, this was always my problem and I wil never forgive myself for dragging my wife into the whole thing As in living with a functual alcholic

Despite all that, still proud of four years dry

Yeah, not an easy subject to admit to. My original position was to help anyone else on here who found themselves in a similar position

Even though I made that clear, I've been blown away by the reactions, and I'm grateful for all of them.

Thanks from me and Hanna. All the best to both of you and stay safe xx

Cheers Kern, very much appreciated. Just hope the info might help someone, anyone.

All the best to you and yours...and get independence sorted ASAP!

Cheers, All the best to you and yours too!

I think a lot of people would think four beers a day is not all that much, even though as you have shown it is enough to do irreparable liver damage. I don’t think you should blame yourself as we live in a culture where this kind of drinking is seen as normal. I’m sure your wife doesn’t blame you and you perhaps could try not to focus on that.

Four years dry is amazing, something to be proud of! I did 7 months a couple of years ago and I am 5 months dry now. I was drinking too much too regularly and it adversely affected my physical and mental health a lot. Obviously I cannot predict the future but my plan is not to drink alcohol again. I’m finding there are quite a few non-alcoholic substitutes I enjoy and it helps Sal doesn’t really like drinking, so we don’t have any in the house.

Thanks, Vision, you've always been one of my fave poters on here. Just wanted you to know!

Sorry to hear your news MrC.

My mum has a knackered liver too after years of heavy nightly drinking but has been sober for 8+ years and hanging on in there (although still in denial that the booze had anything to do with it)

It's something I think of often because I have a questionable relationship with alcohol (both parents are/'were' alcoholics so I blame them, ha). Weird in a way how something that can be so damaging is so "normal", though.

Thank you for sharing with us.

Just want to add my sympathy, thanks for sharing the information/warning (four beers a night doesn’t sound much, but I guess it all adds up, so it’s good to be aware of possible consequences), and general hopes and good wishes to you and your wife. MrC.

Thanks for posting this and as others have said, I'm very sorry to hear that you and your family are going through this and I wish you all the best.

Do you believe, probably in hindsight, that you were an alcoholic? I think our generation is probably the first to truly have a drinking culture, 18-30 holidays, booze cruises etc. and we're starting to get to an age now we're those days are catching up on us, perhaps?

This is a timely topic for me as I have been thinking about my own drinking habits recently, as I do think I probably drink too much. I realised that when I'm at home in the evening, I don't tend to drink anything other than alcohol, and at weekends I probably have my first drink in the mid afternoon. I didn't think it was an issue because I only had a maximum of two a night. At weekends, I'd have a cider or two in the afternoon and then go onto vodka and coke in the evening after dinner.

I had thought I was okay because I don't 'need' it so I'm not an alcoholic, and I don't drink enough to feel hungover. However, I think on the basis that when I go to get a drink, I prefer an alcoholic one, is an indication that I possibly am to some degree. It definitely needs addressing, anyway.

So, thank you for this, your story will certainly make me change some habits that I was already aware weren't the best.

Crikey that's awful. I sincerely hope you can conquer this MrC.

Just to add to the wellwishing, Mr C. That's awful news, especially with all the madness that's going on.

The abstention should be doing some good. All you can do is what you've done: act on the warning signs, modify your lifestyle and advise others.

Interesting you use that specific phrasing as I said exactly the same when I first had concerns about my drinking, only to realise that I didn't "need" it because I was literally drinking every night anyway. It was a lot harder to pretend I wasn't having cravings etc when I cut it out completely (was sober for 2 years before it started to sneak back in). I'll be honest though, I'd probably still be drinking like that if it didn't affect my (already stuffed) mental health so badly

Not sure what to say other than i'm sorry dude, and i'm thinking of you.
If there is anything we can do to help, please say.

I'm so sorry, what awful news for you and your family, I wish you all the very best

I feel like you are being brutally hard on yourself, you didn't set out to harm yourself or your wife, you got into that habit and actually completely changed your habit! That is amazingly hard!
I'm not saying the drinking didn't contribute to this illness, but bad luck also did and regardless of "self inflicted" you deserve as much compassion and all the emotions as your wife.

My father was a full blown alcoholic since way before I was born. Beer because he liked the taste but hard liquor for the rest. He was a horror to live with and the reason I don't drink alcohol at all. He lived to be 72 years old and died from something completely unrelated.

Sorry mate, not sure what to say.

So, I find myself up in the middle of the night again (this whole thing can mess with your day/night cycle). Mostly, though, it's leaping out of bed with some pretty impressive leg cramps that can last for hours, definitely my least favourite symptom (you often dread going to bed at all, no matter how tired you feel). I definitely wouldn't recommend it, which is why I wrote the thread in the first place, to hopefully help one or two people from slipping into the same situation, as you really don't see it coming and by the time you do have symptoms, you're already in trouble. If I can help even one of you avoid a similar fate, it would make me very happy.

Anyway, now that I'm up, although I'm a bit slow in the brain department (another fun symptom, by the way), I thought I'd try and make use of the time and get a few replies in. Apologies if I miss anyone - at the very least my response is a great big "thank you".

Just a little something I remember from after the diagnosis. Unsurprisingly, I had lots of questions for my doc. (he's fantastic, by the way, a bit of an addiction specialist and does a lot of work for the homeless). One answer I won't forget is that this illness has a life of its own. He wasn't wrong...

Thank you, miki. I don't think I can take too much credit for changing the habit - the diagnosis was crystal clear, an all or nothing thing, the decision wasn't a hard one.

Unlike your dad, I was a quiet and mildly cheery drinker and rarely felt drunk at all. Maybe that should in itself have been a clue.

Sorry to hear about your dad's behaviour, but there does seem to be a massive spectrum of drinkers.

Thank you for your compassion, though, means a lot.

Cheers mate. You've already helped with those few words.

I know it's not an easy subject, but thanks.

You're more than welcome. Please do get an ultrasound and a blood test, even if just for your peace of mind, like I say, this can creep up on you unnoticed. Impressive what your mum has achieved, by the way.

Cheers Dimrill. Sadly, I can't conquer this in the sense of cure it (it's that word I mentioned somwhere "decompensated", which means the damage done can't be reversed).

What I can do is keep the brakes on (no drinking, ever, in other words) and slow things down, hopefully.

Good point - I didn't think I "needed" it either, but that kind of thinking is a trap.

Hope you get your mental health issues sorted, that can't be much fun either, whatever the details may be.

Yeah, the world is going a bit mad right now.

I'll dare to quote my wife with one of her nuggets of wisdom, simply "it is how it is". You could equally say it's not worth worrying about things you can't influence. Easier said than done, but true nonetheless.

Oh, and as for advising others, as far as I can I'm more than willing to answer any questions on the cirrhosis subject to the best of my ability. Of course, the doc is the first port of call, but you do get some insight purely from being in the situation.

With hindsight, no question. I must have been an alcoholic, the data don't lie. But it's so easy to fool yourself "sure, I like a drink" "it's only beer" and probably a million others. Interesting what you say about a drinking culture, there certainly was a big one at uni (um, a few years in the past ...roughly 1872, if I remember rightly).

But, from your personal story I'm hearing potential alarm bells, so all I can say is pop to the hospital, be brutally honest with them about your drinking habits and get those tests done (they're probably a bit busy right now, what with the whole corona thing, but you will get an appointment at some point. You might be 100% fine, but from what you said, I'd strongly recommend a check-up. Please, please do, you won't regret it and I wish you all the best from the bottom of my heart. Do it today, or tomorrow, just don't put it off. If I'd reacted maybe just a year earlier, I might not be in the situation I am now, and trust me, you don't want this.Again, all the best, good luck and xx.


With hindsight, no question. I must have been an alcoholic, the data don't lie. But it's so easy to fool yourself "sure, I like a drink" "it's only beer" and probably a million others. Interesting what you say about a drinking culture, there certainly was a big one at uni (um, a few years in the past ...roughly 1872, if I remember rightly).

But, from your personal story I'm hearing potential alarm bells, so all I can say is pop to the hospital, be brutally honest with them about your drinking habits and get those tests done (they're probably a bit busy right now, what with the whole corona thing, but you will get an appointment at some point. You might be 100% fine, but from what you said, I'd strongly recommend a check-up. Please, please do, you won't regret it and I wish you all the best from the bottom of my heart. Do it today, or tomorrow, just don't put it off. If I'd reacted maybe just a year earlier, I might not be in the situation I am now, and trust me, you don't want this.Again, all the best, good luck and xx.

P.S. The system logged me out and parts of the post have disappeared. All I'm sure about is I offerred you whatsapp (assuming I can remember how it works) in case you want to talk about your results or ask anything about the subject in general.

I'll try again now...

Thanks alot Nik. I suspect it was the frequency more than the quantity. But, yeah, in the unlikely event you had any personal doubts, I cant recommend a check-up enough.

Four years is less impressive than it sounds. First of all the diagnosis left no room for doubt what was just around the corner if I didn't quit the booze completely, immediately and for ever. Not a tough decision, to be honest. The ten days or so in hospital also were a big help.
Still sort of proud of it in a way. I never thought being a gamer would help my health, but stupid as it might sound, counting the days, then weeks, months and years had a strange feel of going for a high score. Maybe not the solution for everyone, but it worked for me.
Your achievment sounds more impressive in a way. Wise choice not to have it in the house, too. Bleeding obvious again (sorry!) but you can't be tempted, maybe in a dark moment, by something that isn't there...

Just popped on to see if I'd missed anyone out. Couldn't believe I'd missed your post and I can assure you, the feeling is entirely mutual.

Really sorry to hear what happened to your friend, hope he/she at least made it to a decent enough age.

No need to worry about "doom and gloom". The whole reason for this thread was to avoid that for others.

Sorry, I think I missed your post, too, so thanks for writing. And what's what's wrong with liking Myp's posts anyway? I actually proposed to him several years ago, but turns out I wasn't his type...

As for the smoking, as long as you weren't on a pack a day for a few decades, you should be OK. Never heard them called chuffs before, by the way.

I'd like to add my best wishes, too, MrC. I don't drink that much, generally speaking - too old to get away with it - but the amount was creeping up a bit. I had a no-booze day yesterday in your honour, the first of many (albeit not in a row), when it would have been just as easy to open one. Cheers.

Thank you very much, I know the feeling. In my case, what with the lack of symptoms, I was sort of generally aware I was drinking too much, but felt fine. I was very much of the "it's only a few beers" school of drinkers. That's why I can't repeat often enough that you don't see it coming.

By the way, I should have said this earlier, but it goes without saying. If anyone has any questions at all (public or private) about any aspect of this subject, I'll answer to the best of my ability. You've all been wonderful and fair, and for that I will be eternally grarteful.

Hey MrC, I'm really sorry to hear about this, but at the same time I'm kind of admiring as to how you're facing it and using your terrible experience to warn others. Thinking of you and yours. x

Also now in this shut-in world I'm stuck in at the moment thinking about my own intake levels. I think I could do with keeping an eye on my recent intake myself. A few too many quiz nights where I've cracked open a couple of cans, I better not let it get out of hand since the temptation is always there to raise a glass to another over the video link-up - and there's a lot of video link-ups. Think I'll start alternating it with a nice pot of tea by my side, instead.

All of this.

Not having to get up for work as early, or drive the next morning and just staying at home makes most evenings feel like a weekend at the moment. It's do easy to just have a glass (or more) of wine/gin/whatever just because you can.

I think we have to remember that alcohol is a highly addictive drug and we shouldn’t beat ourselves up too heavily about overindulging, especially in this time of extreme boredom and stress. There’s a great book that Jem put me onto which really helped me called This Naked Mind. Even if you’re not keen on stopping completely, if you feel you are drinking too much it may help to understand the physiological and psychological effects it has on you (even if you think you know already but don’t fully understand, and even if you already do it’s still worth reading).

https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/ ... naked-mind

I stopped completely for seven months after reading this.