Be Excellent To Each Other

A death! A death!

My kingdom for a death!

[playerlist]
Gilly
kalmar
zaphod79
DavPaz
KovacsC
GazChap
Zeppo
Malc
MaliA
Craster
flis
TheVision
Joans
sinister agent
Bobbyaro
LaceSensor
Alarm
ApplePieofDestiny
Goddess Jasmine
[/playerlist]

Day Six ends at 9pm on Friday, or preferably before.

You can find the rules your damn self!

Unbelievable.

You MUPPETS.

Town: DON'T INSTA-LYNCH when we have TWO investigators in the game, one of whom has roleclaimed. If Flis were lying, you could have known it before risking a lynch, and if she were telling the truth, she'd have been able to answer us another question first. We could also direct Ackbarr and RD2D instead of leaving them in the dark for another night.


Jedi: WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU PLAYING AT?

1) Don't ask "could this player be in the empire" - that would rule out Jawa, whose win conditions are to capture and survive. Ask "Is this player a rebel" - everyone else is a target, so a 'no' = splat.

2) Give us clear information. I was still convinced flis was Sith until Grim used his dad powers - her arguemnts are still full of holes, so either this is all a huge gamble by the Sith (v. unlikely, obv, but possible), or YOU ARE TERRIBLE AT THIS.

3) Stop making insane assumptions. Flis said earlier that you suspected one person of being Leia. THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN KNOW THIS. Okay, so assuming you've asked if that person's a rebel, then good, that's someone you can trust, but don't make ANY assumptions that don't add up.

4) If you're not sure about a player, DON'T TRY TO KILL THEM. The odds are far greater that you'll hit one of our own. You've already completely wasted Han's power, and THEN TRIED TO KILL HIM AGAIN (this is a major reason I was suspicious of flis to begin with - nothing in her explanation of what you've done makes any sense, you mentals). We're at the point where we need Jabba out before he takes 5 of us with him, so you might as well have Yoda investigate and Luke attempt to de-Jabba.

5) If at any point you have been Ackbarred, you should probably tell Ackbar which night it was on, so that if he targeted one of you, he has another person he can trust.


Han: COME FORWARD. Flis can back you up, and as you've been captured, you can't be killed. That will also reduce the slim chance that this is all a Sith ploy to about 0.3%, and give us two people we can all trust. It will also save R2D2 from wasting an investigation.

Flis: I assume you were roleblocked the night before Grim went, so either we'll only get one Yoda answer, or you're Luke and you were roleblocked (I'd imagine you targeted me tbh, which might explain why I'm still alive). What did you ask, and what was the answer? And what do you want us to do now?


I wrote a massively long post about how incredibly suspect flis' roleclaim was overnight (previous night). I won't bother with it now, obviously, because the odds that it's a ploy are slim and if Han comes forward, practically zero. But we were lucky that she was right about Grim, because her reasoning was dreadful - it was just as likely that he was evil Lando (who if captured would also resist all kills AND show up as Empire), for one thing. And she kept saying that they asked two questions a night - four times, she said this.

I am not FOS-ing flis after Grim's reveal - I was planning to vote for her today until then - but seriously, a cunning and bold Sith player could seriously fuck you guys up if you only consider the obvious angles.

Bottom line: Stop making weak assumptions. Stop suspecting anyone who examines someone's behaviour - those people are the ones who catch villains even without superpowers. Don't believe a very illogical and self-contradictory story just because it's long and hard to follow.

Having seen how you lot work, I am obviously a prime suspect right now (even though if I were a killer or protector there's no way I'd risk my neck for a common roleblocker, and if I were a mook, I'd totally be lying low and hoping the Sith all got lynched so I could be in charge), so don't expect to last very long, but HEED MY WORDS*.

*if that happens to be a quote from one of the films or whatever, this isn't a roleclaim btw.

Well this is not unexpected seeing as the Jedi lost the ability to kill.
Id recommend we dont rush to any lynch prior to hearing from Flis.

For the time being, large FOS on Sinister Agent for how strongly he was arguing with what is a now a known Jedi on day 4...

Ackbar's a roleblocker, you donkey.

Everyone was arguing with flis. It was the least sane argument since before speech was invented.

If you wanna jump on the FOS list for sticking up for him then be my guest

SA has produced coherent, sane arguments. The fact that he was wrong doesn't change that even slightly. Even if he is a donkey for thinking Ackbar's an investigator.

Yeah, exactly why Flis should say to Ackbar (no need to name him) on which night, if any, he targeted a Jedi. That way he will not roleblock them again, or, if the Jedi need extra protection on a night, they can use him.

E.g: Luke is currently powerless, so it might make more sense for Obi Win to protect Yoda, but if Ackbarr happens to have blocked Luke on [Night x], then if the Jedi need extra protection, Flis can say "Ackbar, please protect the same person you protected on [Night x]", while Obi Wan protects Yoda.

I am personally more suspicious of you. Your name has been mentioned by several people all week, which is more than can be said for Craster, who, you'll remember, claimed to be Ackbarred one night, and nobody's counterclaimed or killed him for it.

So... anyone want to own up to being ackbarred last night?

Ackbar can't protect anyone.

Yup, he can. Roleblock and protect

I'd be surprised if Ackbar hasn't saved at least one life so far.

My bad.

FOS!

I've been saying this since day one... All it got me was stick

Anyway, [vote:sinister agent] because despite the fantastic speech, your vote was for flis on day four.

I'm at a pub quiz so probably shouldn't be on the internet now!

I know I was rubbish yesterday, I panicked because I assumed I had enough information to get everyone on side. Sorry about that....It's only my second game.

I'll be back to answer questions etc. as soon as I can. /Metadata

Well, I still think flis is suspect to be honest.

I think Grim... and her cooked up the big argument and I think Gazchap is in it too.

Now, I may be wrong about flis and she may be luke or A.N Other jedi, so for that reason

[vote:gazchap]

Malc

[vote:Malc]

Oh and if it turns out that flis is a jedi then I think their logic is flawed wrt to han.

Malc

Why is that Joans? surely if I was a baddy I wouldn't be attacking flis after she outted grim...?

or is it cos I targeted Gazchap and you are in some pact together?

Malc

This is so weird, it has to be the most succesful the town has ever done by having so many people still alive at this stage, but it feels like it could go wrong at any moment. Usually by this stage you can feel like you have a decent idea about some people but with the lack of kills at night we have so little to go on. I am also aware of the fact that Jabba/Jawa could drop a bomb at some point now we are getting to what is meant to be a late stage of the game so we need to try and use our time wisely. We can't really afford a no lynch anymore, we need to get info.
I am happy to wait to hear from flis about who she thinks we should vote for.

Oh god, I'm not

I don't see how you can think Flis is suspect after she correctly told us who Vader was.
And unless Gaz has psychic powers, he can't be in the Empire (although he could still have a sith win condition).

Heh, she really is the worst Jedi ever eh? She'll probably vote for herself by accident.

( )

What I really want to know, is how Curiosity is going to subtitle the threads from now on. He obviously wasn't expecting this many people to still be alive at day 6.

See, you're thinking that, almost everyone is thinking that, why would they give up vader? it's insane, it's the perfect cover is what is. Now, I know I've used this line of thinking before and was wrong *cough* *cough* but in my mind that makes it even more likely to be true...

Now, what are you saying about gazchap?

I think I miht have missed something here...

Malc

He'll have to start creating sequel prequel sequels.

Flis, please don't drink too much, we need you to be as coherant as possible!

clone wars episodes? Do they have titles?

Malc

There's enough Star Wars lore to plunder for titles... but I was expecting more people to be dead by now!!!

I think I suggested on day 4 (although I might just have thought it), that it was possibly an elaborate ploy to get Flis seen as a cast-iron good guy, but bear in mind, if she's not a jedi, then there's 3 people out there who know she isn't, so she's not going to make it to the end if she's a liar.

Gaz was the first person to describe being roleblocked by Vader, which was then verified by Zaphod. Unless Grim... roleblocked a fellow Empire just to see if he got a message about it, then I think it's safe to say that Gaz isn't in the Empire.

From the rules:

What did gazchap actually say?

Malc

It would be mental for a team of 3 to throw one of their own away, to secure a 'story' that could be counterclaimed.

He said he was force gripped.
Hey, maybe you're right, perhaps he and Flis have both put themselves out in the firing line so they can mock us later.

Of course, Gaz is always a bad guy, so we should probably still lynch him.

[quote=Gazchap on day 4]I was force-gripped (roleblocked) by Douglas Bader during the night. I have no night action though, for I am just a vanilla rebel which means he wasted a roleblock.[/quote]

hmmmm

nothing really specific, but then he did go on to talk about getting a pm from curio, so I dunno.

However my (twisted?) logic goes like this. Gazchap said something and grim pounced on it, this led me to suspect both of them of doing the ploy, and then flis confused things even more, which led me to lump her in the mix too.

If you look at what gaz has said he is quite suspect.

He didn't swap from flis to grim... agreed with grim...'s logic a lot

So, yes maybe flis being in with grim... is too far fetched, however, I think I might be on to something with gazchap.

Malc

Maybe we should save flis the hassle and vote for malc because this argument is really serving no purpose, these things aren't really disputable?!

There's still a possibility that flis is Sith. They would know who Vader is. Offing one of your own is a powerful tool for the villains.

It is very high risk though, particularly with so many investigators in the game, plus there was no real need to do it, so it is unlikely. If Han came forward it would be a no-risk way to put the matter to rest, though. If Han is actually captured, obv.

I would like to hear the rationale behind voting for Gazchap, though.

But there are three jedi that know she's lying. That's not very powerful at all.

That's why it's a good plan. Nobody would believe the first one was lying, and if the Jedi counterclaimed, they'd be exposed. Between that and the confusion caused by so much conflicting information, there'd be a good opportunity to mess the Jedi right up. Hell, look how confusing yesterday got when flis posted her claim - and that was very likely to be genuine.

Plus, we've seen mentaller behaviour.



Three Jedi who can't do anything unless one of them roleclaims (the Sith almost definitely have a protector too), which exposes them, and risks that they wouldn't be believed.

Causing confusion is a very powerful tactic against the uninformed and isolated. People in the dark will likely cling to the first half-convincing thing they're told rather than compare the merits of two or three conflicting arguments.

Yeah. If she was lying, and in cahoots with Grim... then 3 people could counterclaim as Jedi - and she wouldn't have 2 other people to back her up.

It must be said, I'm uncomfortable with how much you are pushing for Han to step forward SA, you mention it evry post.

Addendum: I'm still not FOS-ing flis by all this, btw - it's improbable that this is a plot. And we have a solid way to prove that it isn't anyway, so this will all be moot once everyone's checked in. It's just ... well, never rule out the improbable.

We only really need to worry about Flis when she's still there at the end of the game, and we won't lynch her because we "know" she's a good guy.
By that stage we'll either have at least one jedi left who can do, er, something. Or all three will be dead and Flis will look mighty suspicious.

Ah, I hadn't thought of that. That makes sense - if everyone came out, the Sith would be screwed.



I've banged on about Han because I've mentioned Flis every post, and don't want it to be taken as a FOS. If Flis was telling the truth, his roleclaim would be utterly risk free. He wouldn't be lynched, because he and flis together would be all but absolute proof of innocence, and he couldn't be killed by the Sith because he's been captured. It's perfectly logical.

And I mention it again because I know people miss things, and several people have been popping up, saying they're too busy to read everything, and voting. It's an important point and I don't want it overlooked.

Besides, why would anyone evil give a shit about outing Han? He does nothing, and there's a good chance Jabba will take him away in a few days anyway.

If you don't want discussion of flis' actions to be taken as suspicion, then just say so. Don't just start trying to get other to roleclaim to distract from the fact you are still poking at someone else!

Han is on our side, we shouldn't out him when we don't know for sure he is captured and he is a target of a bad guy. Who I am beginning to think is you.

See, I don't think the assumptions made about Han are neccersarilly correct.

Malc

Are you Jabba or Fett or something?

Malc

I have. Several times, very, very plainly.




Minutes ago, you said yourself that I had mentioned Han a lot. The reason I gave, very clearly, every time, was because such a roleclaim would be risk-free.

It doesn't matter if he's a target of a bad guy or not. Flis said they're sure he's been captured, which means that any attacks on him will fail. And WHY WOULD A VILLAIN CARE ABOUT HAN. The only person who would be interested is Jabba, and he already has him. Flis said so herself.

Unless you can actually explain how it would not be risk free, you have no leg to stand on with this. If you suspect me for some reason, fine, but make it a reason that actually stands up to scrutiny.